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[mpls] New Liaison Statement, "T-MPLS Consented Recommendatio ns"

  • From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" <tnadeau@cisco.com>
  • Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:09:24 -0400
  • Cc: mpls@lists.ietf.org
  • X-IronPort-AV: i="4.04,112,1144036800"; d="scan'208"; a="86196103:sNHT34065860"
  • X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Apr 2006 15:09:28.0012 (UTC)FILETIME=[ED4A18C0:01C65D79]


> Why do you think T-MPLS is a completely different mechanism than MPLS?

	I didn't say that; please re-read what I posted.
I said it is essentially a subset of functionality (sans the reserved
label range and Y.1711).

> Also why should the OAM for T-MPLS that is not using PHP, ECMP and  
> merging satisfy the
> general OAM requirements as specified in RFC4377?

	How do you trace the LSP using Y.1711 or is that
not an important function for OAM for T-MPLS? Also, from the
IETF's perspective, we have already defined a tool set that
satisfies all of the requirements of ping and trace (tree and path)
in a single tool, which is now on the standards track, is widely
deployed, and thus should be the tool specified herein.

	--Tom


> -Shahram
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Thomas D. Nadeau [mailto:tnadeau@cisco.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:34 AM
>> To: Shahram Davari
>> Cc: mpls@lists.ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [mpls] New Liaison Statement, "T-MPLS Consented
>> Recommendatio ns"
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hi Tom,
>>>
>>> 1) Reading the T-MPLS specs I didn't see any specific label range
>>> restriction. Where have you seen this?
>>
>> 	See inline marked with "TOM:"
>>
>>> 2) The OAM specified is for T-MPLS, which as you said is a subset
>>> of MPLS. Specifically T-MPLS doesn't include PHP, merging and ECMP
>>> as indicated by the Liaison. So why should an OAM that is going to
>>> be used for T-MPLS support those functions?
>>
>> 	The OAM as specified in the T-MPLS document is not a subset of
>> MPLS; it is a completely different mechanism from what is specified
>> at the IETF to meet the requirements in RFC4377. As described, y1711
>> acts on a sub-set of MPLS (lets forget about the label range), but
>> does not meet all of the requirements as specified in RFC4377,
>> even for this subset of MPLS.
>>
>> 	--Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> -Shahram
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Thomas D. Nadeau [mailto:tnadeau@cisco.com]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:25 AM
>>>> To: mpls@lists.ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [mpls] New Liaison Statement, "T-MPLS Consented
>>>> Recommendations"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [Resending to mpls list as I got a warning from the mailer
>>>> that there was a suspicious number of recipients, so I am not
>>>> sure it was delivered.]
>>>>
>>>> 	Hi,
>>>>
>>>> 	A few things in the ITU T-MPLS document concern me:
>>>>
>>>> 	1) The document itself constitutes what is essentially
>>>> 		two things: an protocol specification
>>>> 		and an implementation guideline.
>>>>
>>>> 		For this reason, I first suggest that this document
>>>> 		needs to be split into two: one that specifies
>>>> 		the label range allocation (as well as requests
>>>> 		it from the IETF), and a second that specifies
>>>> 		the implementation guideline. I also suggest
>>>> 		removal of "MPLS" from the name. This is very
>>>> 		confusing, and implies that this document is
>>>> 		some new standard for MPLS, whereas what it
>>>> 		really specifies (sans the label range allocation
>>>> 		and the OAM) is a subset of MPLS functionality.
>>>>
>>>> 	2)	With regard to the label range reservation, I am
>>>> 		troubled by this because MPLS has been widely deployed
>>>> 		without the said reserved label range. Deployment
>>>> 		of LSRs that suddenly use this special label
>>>> 		range will most likely lead to interoperability
>>>> 		issues.  I am also troubled by the lack of
>>>> 		definition of what the reserved labels should
>>>> 		be used for.  If in the future, these labels are
>>>> 		defined in a manner that is incompatible with
>>>> 		existing LSRs, this will pose a significant
>>>> 		hurdle to deployments. Again, a separate document that
>>>> 		requests the label range, as well as specifies
>>>> 		what they are to be used for is appropriate.
>>>>
>>>> 	3) 	The OAM as specified does not meet the IETF's
>>>> 		requirements for OAM specified in RFC4377.
>>>> 		Y.1711 is not suitable for environments where PHP is
>>>> 		enabled, and it also has other deficiencies such as a
>>>> 		lack of tracing functionality, and cannot handle Equal
>>>> 		Cost Multi-Path (ECMP) LSPs.  In particular, section
>>>> 		4.3 of RFC4377 stipulates that path characterization
>>>> 		functions must be able to work in these cases:
>>>>
>>>> 4.3.  Path Characterization
>>>>
>>>>     The path characterization function is the ability to
>>>> reveal details
>>>>     of LSR forwarding operations.  These details can then
>> be compared
>>>>     during subsequent testing relevant to OAM functionality.  This
>>>>     includes but is not limited to:
>>>>
>>>>        -  consistent use of pipe or uniform time to live
>>>> (TTL) models by
>>>>           an LSR [RFC3443].
>>>>
>>>>        -  sufficient details that allow the test origin to
>>>> exercise all
>>>>           path permutations related to load spreading (e.g., ECMP).
>>>>
>>>>        -  stack operations performed by the LSR, such as pushes,
>>>> pops,
>>>>           and TTL propagation at penultimate hop LSRs.
>>>>
>>>> 	I suggest replacing the reference to Y.1711 with a reference
>>>> 	to rfc4377, rfc4378, and rfc4379.
>>>>
>>>> 	--Tom
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Title: T-MPLS Consented Recommendations
>>>>> Submission Date: 2006-04-02
>>>>> URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/
>>>>> liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=207
>>>>> Please reply by 2006-04-17
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Greg Jones(ITU-T SG 15) <tsbsg15@itu.int>
>>>>> To: IETF MPLS WG, CC: MFA Forum(George Swallow
>>>> <swallow@cisco.com>,
>>>>> Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>)
>>>>> Cc: info@mfaforum.org
>>>>> maeda@ansl.ntt.co.jp
>>>>> sjtrowbridge@lucent.com
>>>>> rcallon@juniper.net
>>>>> fenner@research.att.com
>>>>> sob@harvard.edu
>>>>> sbrim@cisco.com
>>>>> mpls@lists.ietf.org
>>>>> Reponse Contact: tsbsg15@itu.int
>>>>> Technical Contact: Ghani.Abbas@marconi.com
>>>>> mark.jones@sprint.com
>>>>> betts01@nortel.com
>>>>> Purpose: For action
>>>>> Body: We apologize for not having sent a liaison regarding three
>>>>> consented Recommendations related to
>>>>> T-MPLS. The intent of these Recommendations is not to change MPLS
>>>>> but rather to identify a
>>>>> subset of existing MPLS necessary and sufficient to provide
>>>>> connection-oriented packet transport.
>>>>> The approach to the work was to make a profile of the MPLS data
>>>>> plane functionalities defined in
>>>>> IETF RFCs using the description of MPLS provided in G.8110 (which
>>>>> was approved last year).
>>>>> The intended application of this profile is to provide a
>>>> connection-
>>>>> oriented packet transport
>>>>> network.
>>>>> The focus of the three new recommendations is on the data plane
>>>>> aspects of T-MPLS. Control plane
>>>>> aspects are currently for further study and the work on this
>>>>> subject is starting.
>>>>> According to our work methodology the T-MPLS definitions are split
>>>>> into the three main
>>>>> Recommendations that have been consented in February 2006:
>>>>> *	G.8110.1 dealing with the T-MPLS Architecture
>>>>> *	G.8112 dealing with T-MPLS interface specification
>>>>> *	G.8121 dealing with T-MPLS equipment functional specification
>>>>> A brief high-level introduction of the essential features and
>>>>> selected options for Transport MPLS
>>>>> can be found in section 6/G.8110.1.
>>>>> The objective of the work done by ITU-T SG15 was to define
>>>> a way to
>>>>> use MPLS as a connection-
>>>>> oriented packet-based transport solution for packet aware
>>>> transport
>>>>> networks that can support both
>>>>> packet and circuit (e.g. SDH, OTH or WDM) switching technologies
>>>>> under a common operation,
>>>>> control and management paradigm. For this purpose T-MPLS deploys
>>>>> the MPLS frame format,
>>>>> Client to MPLS mapping and MPLS to MPLS multiplexing and
>>>>> complements this with transport
>>>>> network OAM (Y.1711), nested connection monitoring requiring the
>>>>> labels to be present up to the
>>>>> final node in the network, protection switching (Y.1720/G.8131),
>>>>> transport network based control
>>>>> and management planes, maintaining frame ordering and a restricted
>>>>> number of classes of
>>>>> service/queues.
>>>>> *	MPLS has many applications and it is desirable to identify a
>>>>> subset of MPLS technology that
>>>>> provides the necessary and sufficient functionality for transport
>>>>> applications.
>>>>> We have indicated below some of the options we have selected :-
>>>>> *	In IETF RFCs the usage of PHP is optional. We decided
>>>> not to use
>>>>> it in order to simplify OAM
>>>>> procedures
>>>>> *	In IETF RFCs the usage of merging is optional. We
>>>> decided not to
>>>>> use it in order to simplify
>>>>> OAM procedures and also because the relative lower number of LSPs
>>>>> to be supported is not
>>>>> considered a major scaling issue
>>>>> *	The usage of ECMP is optional. We decided not to use it
>>>> in order
>>>>> to simplify OAM procedures
>>>>> *	Leaving labels 16-31 for further study was seen as a no change
>>>>> because the label allocation on a
>>
>> TOM: Read above.
>>
>>>>> link is defined in IETF RFCs as a local matter for any
>> MPLS device.
>>>>> We are not expecting that the current version of the specification
>>>>> is going to create any
>>>>> interoperability issue. We envisage two possible cases of
>>>>> interoperability:
>>>>> 1.	Interoperability between a T-MPLS box and an
>> existing full-
>>>>> featured and fully configurable
>>>>> MPLS box can be solved by configuring the MPLS box to use the same
>>>>> options selected by T-
>>>>> MPLS (T-MPLS being a profile of MPLS this should be possible). In
>>>>> this case the link between
>>>>> the two boxes is a T-MPLS link and in the scope of our
>>>>> Recommendations.
>>>>> 2.	Interoperability between a transport platform
>>>> supporting T-MPLS
>>>>> and an existing MPLS box
>>>>> that uses a different option selection than T-MPLS, should be
>>>>> solved by the transport platform.
>>>>> In this case the link between the transport platform and the MPLS
>>>>> box is not a T-MPLS link and
>>>>> therefore it is outside the scope of T-MPLS
>>>> recommendations. We are
>>>>> looking for cooperation
>>>>> with IETF to develop the detailed specification of this case.
>>>>> Please find attached the text of the consented Recommendations.
>>>>> Please note that some minor
>>>>> modifications may be made to these draft Recommendations as a
>>>>> result of comments made during
>>>>> the approval process
>>>>> We will appreciate your comments and suggestions in
>>>> relation to the
>>>>> initial scope of T-MPLS as a
>>>>> packet transport network technology.
>>>>> We are planning to review your comments during the next meeting
>>>>> that is planned in Kobe (Japan)
>>>>> on 22-27 April 2006. Results of the comments will be included into
>>>>> our future work (e.g. corrigenda
>>>>> or amendments) on T-MPLS Recommendations. Amendments of T-MPLS
>>>>> Recommendations are
>>>>> already in our plan for the next SG15 plenary meeting in November
>>>>> 2006.We are looking forward
>>>>> for future cooperation with you in T-MPLS data plane and control
>>>>> plane evolution.
>>>>>
>>>>> Attachments: Consented Text of G.8110.1, G.8112, G.8121
>>>>> Attachment(s):
>>>>>      Consented Text of G.8110.1 (https://datatracker.ietf.org/
>>>>> documents/LIAISON/file288.zip)
>>>>>      Consented Text of G.8112 (https://datatracker.ietf.org/
>>>>> documents/LIAISON/file289.zip)
>>>>>      Consented Text of G.8121 (https://datatracker.ietf.org/
>>>>> documents/LIAISON/file290.zip)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> mpls mailing list
>>>>> mpls@lists.ietf.org
>>>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>
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