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[mpls] Requesting your feedback - issues/errors/clarification s

  • From: Bob Thomas <rhthomas@cisco.com>
  • Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:57:45 -0400
  • Cc: mpls@ietf.org

> Please see my comments below:
> 
> 
> + I agree with Luca. I have not seen much use for loop detection in
>   DU mode of operation. So, it would be nice to either clarify its use.
> 
> + I also agree with removal of the HOST FECs. Although they are 
> + supported
>   by the protocol, I have not seen them being advertised.
> 
> + I agree that the selection of FECs for which LDP sends label mapping 
> + message
>   should not be a requirements of the protocol spec. The FECs should be
> either
>   determined by the applications as Ina mentioned, or controlled via
> policies.
> 
> + As for the use of DU in conjunction with independent control mode of 
> + operation,
>   I agree with Vach that DU and IC can result in black holes or packet
> misrouting

How does it result in "misrouting"?


>   in the network. The scheme works fine for IP forwarding, but as Vach
> pointed out
>   in his e-mail, it creates issues in VPN networks.

It seems to me that the appropriate place to address this issue is
in the protocol applicability document (i.e., rfc3037 as opposed to
rfc3036).

Bob


> Arashmid
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Luca Martini [mailto:lmartini@cisco.com <mailto:lmartini@cisco.com> ] 
> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 5:19 PM
> To: Ina Minei
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; vach.kompella@alcatel.com
> Subject: Re: [mpls] Requesting your feedback - issues/errors/clarifications
> 
> 
> Ina,
> 
> Please note the following points:
> 
> - the LDP loop detection mechanisms do not make much sense in DU mode. 
> This is the hop count TLV,  and the Path Vector TLV. ( When LDP 
> interoperability testing was just starting , I had most vendors out 
> there remove it for DU mode ). We should add something explicitly that 
> says that these TLVs should not be used in DU mode. ( This is the 
> current practice in all implementations that I know of )
> 
> - The Host FEC is accepted by most implementations I worked with , but 
> sent by none. So I also think it's probably a good idea to remove it.
> 
> Luca
> 
> 
> 
> Ina Minei wrote:
> 
> >>>Issue: do we really have to send all FECs in our database whenever we
> >>>have an LDP session between two peers?
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>This should not be a requirement of the protocol spec, the application
> >>which is using the protocol should determine which FECS get sent.
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >	I agree. This is not a specification issue, but rather a
> best-practice
> >based on the application for which the protocol is used. If you only 
> >need the loopbacks as FECs for your application, then it is best if you 
> >_ask_ LDP to only redistribute the loopbacks, because it will make your 
> >network easier to troubleshoot.
> >
> >				Ina
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >>>Issue: with all the combinations of Downstream Unsolicited,
> >>>Downstream on Demand, Ordered Control, Independent Control, etc., it 
> >>>makes sense to define a mandatory combination.  DU/OC seems to be the 
> >>>favored one.
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>I believe  this would  put a majority  of the  deployed LDP speakers
> >>out of spec.  Such a change cannot be made as part of going to DS.
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >mpls mailing list
> >mpls@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls> 
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls> 
> 
> 
> 
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> <TITLE>RE: [mpls] Requesting your feedback - =
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> <BODY>
> <BR>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Please see my comments =
> below:</FONT>
> </P>
> <BR>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">+ I agree with Luca. I have not =
> seen much use for loop detection in</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; DU mode of operation. =
> So, it would be nice to either clarify its use.</FONT>
> </P>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">+ I also agree with removal of =
> the HOST FECs. Although they are </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">+ supported</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; by the protocol, I have =
> not seen them being advertised.</FONT>
> </P>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">+ I agree that the selection of =
> FECs for which LDP sends label mapping </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">+ message</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; should not be a =
> requirements of the protocol spec. The FECs should be either</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; determined by the =
> applications as Ina mentioned, or controlled via policies.</FONT>
> </P>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">+ As for the use of DU in =
> conjunction with independent control mode of </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">+ operation,</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; I agree with Vach that =
> DU and IC can result in black holes or packet misrouting</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; in the network. The =
> scheme works fine for IP forwarding, but as Vach pointed out</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; in his e-mail, it =
> creates issues in VPN networks.</FONT>
> </P>
> <BR>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Arashmid</FONT>
> </P>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">-----Original =
> Message-----</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">From: Luca Martini [</FONT><A =
> HREF=3D"mailto:lmartini@cisco.com"><U><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 =
> FACE=3D"Courier New">mailto:lmartini@cisco.com</FONT></U></A><FONT =
> SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">] </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 =
> 5:19 PM</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">To: Ina Minei</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Cc: mpls@ietf.org; =
> vach.kompella@alcatel.com</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Subject: Re: [mpls] Requesting =
> your feedback - issues/errors/clarifications</FONT>
> </P>
> <BR>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Ina,</FONT>
> </P>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Please note the following =
> points:</FONT>
> </P>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">- the LDP loop detection =
> mechanisms do not make much sense in DU mode. </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">This is the hop count =
> TLV,&nbsp; and the Path Vector TLV. ( When LDP </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">interoperability testing was =
> just starting , I had most vendors out </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">there remove it for DU mode ). =
> We should add something explicitly that </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">says that these TLVs should not =
> be used in DU mode. ( This is the </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">current practice in all =
> implementations that I know of )</FONT>
> </P>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">- The Host FEC is accepted by =
> most implementations I worked with , but </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">sent by none. So I also think =
> it's probably a good idea to remove it.</FONT>
> </P>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Luca</FONT>
> </P>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Ina Minei wrote:</FONT>
> </P>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;&gt;&gt;Issue: do we really =
> have to send all FECs in our database whenever we</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;&gt;&gt;have an LDP session =
> between two peers?</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
> New">&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;&gt;&gt;</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;&gt;This should not be a =
> requirement of the protocol spec, the application</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;&gt;which is using the =
> protocol should determine which FECS get sent.</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
> </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;&gt;</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
> New">&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I agree. This is not a =
> specification issue, but rather a best-practice</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;based on the application =
> for which the protocol is used. If you only </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;need the loopbacks as FECs =
> for your application, then it is best if you </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;_ask_ LDP to only =
> redistribute the loopbacks, because it will make your </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;network easier to =
> troubleshoot.</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
> New">&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ina</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;&nbsp; </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;&gt;&gt;Issue: with all the =
> combinations of Downstream Unsolicited,</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;&gt;&gt;Downstream on =
> Demand, Ordered Control, Independent Control, etc., it </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;&gt;&gt;makes sense to =
> define a mandatory combination.&nbsp; DU/OC seems to be the </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;&gt;&gt;favored one.</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
> New">&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;&gt;&gt;</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;&gt;I believe&nbsp; this =
> would&nbsp; put a majority&nbsp; of the&nbsp; deployed LDP =
> speakers</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;&gt;out of spec.&nbsp; Such =
> a change cannot be made as part of going to DS.</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;&gt;</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
> </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;&gt;</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
> New">&gt;_______________________________________________</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;mpls mailing list</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;mpls@lists.ietf.org =
> </FONT><A HREF=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls"><U><FONT =
> COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
> New">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</FONT></U></A>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;&nbsp; </FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&gt;</FONT>
> </P>
> <BR>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
> New">_______________________________________________</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">mpls mailing list</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">mpls@lists.ietf.org</FONT>
> <BR><A HREF=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls"><U><FONT =
> COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
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