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MPLSOAM BOF revised minutes
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From: "David Allan" <dallan@nortelnetworks.com>
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:34:30 -0500
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Cc: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>, Shahram Davari <Shahram_Davari@pmc-sierra.com>, "'mpls@UU.net'" <mpls@UU.NET>
Title: RE: MPLSOAM BOF revised minutes
Abarbanel:
Most
networking technologies depend on network layer involving identifiers of global
significance (within the network) for signalling and routing, some can support
more than one and in fact most will support an arbitrary number (e.g. ships in
the night or MVR). Some folks consider each level of MPLS to be a significant
chunk of the OSI stack (L3-L7 with a few null layers thrown in) with each
additional label constituting a new application to the previous
level/label.
Read
the LSR MIB, think long and hard about what you could do with it (skip
signalling , distributed routing, and FECs (which is really describing a
layer mapping function) and shims and all the rest), and note the set of
"independent attributes" that emerge.....MPLS can stand by
itself.
My
point is that what you want to call it is your own personal dogma, "A rose my
any other name...."
merry
christmas
Dave
I
think MPLS was never officially dubbed a "layer" unto itself because it was
shoehorned into the
the
stack by designers after the existing TCP/IP protocols were defined. I have a
rather uncomfertible
feeling calling it a new layer. What is it layer
2.5? It intimately depends on layer 3 (IP for initial signalling) and
4(OSPF, ISIS, BGP, etc. for routing topology). To me a layer is
one that exhibits alot of independent attributes.
Ben
Folks:
Don't care what you term it, an MPLS "level" performs
forwarding, is managagable, has unique modes
of failure, may
be uniquely manipulated by a
control plane, collects
performance
statistics, offers queuing and scheduling....
and it can RECURSE, in some ways
a similar attribute to
.....IP/PPP/L2TP/IP....
or .....IP/GRE/IP...... or
OC3/OC12/OC48/OC192/OC768
in some folks book it can be a bunch of layers.....in
other
folks book it is a helper of arbitrary
complexity, all
depends on which control plane
fiddles the cross connect and
whether the
application is a peer or overlay model.
regardless of what semantic term
you use or how you justify
your classiciation
on the basis of arcane networking models,
each
level is a unique forwarding plane with unique
attributes, everything else derives from that. Merely
claiming that the only application of a unique
forwarding
layer is a helper is akin to
suggesting export controls on
encryption. The
cat is out of the bag by the mere fact of its
existence.
cheers
Dave
P.S. apologies if anyone got this twice.
> ----------------------------------------
>
> Don,
>
> I nevr claimed that MPLS is layer, I've always
claimed that MPLS
> is something entirely
different. I use MPLS as a toolbox to support
>
my IP network.
>
>
/Loa
>
> > Don
Fedyk wrote:
> >
>
> Loa
> >
> >
I don't know what you are getting at. MPLS is recognizable
> > in the forwarding plane. Yakov said this is not a
requirement.
> > I pointed out that while this
is true, in practice, for whatever
> > reason
we end up putting a recognizable layer in the forwarding
> > plane. I just called it like I see it. If you want to build
a new
> > OSI model to describe this then that
is your prerogative. I don't
> > see the
need.
> >
> >
Don
> >
> > >
-----Original Message-----
> > > From: Loa
Andersson [mailto:loa.andersson@utfors.se]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:34
AM
> > > To: Fedyk, Don
[BL60:1A00:EXCH]
> > > Cc: Yakov Rekhter;
Shahram Davari; 'mpls@UU.net'
> > >
Subject: Re: MPLSOAM BOF revised minutes
> >
>
> > >
>
> > Don,
> > >
> > > what other layers are there in the model that MPLS is
a layer
> > > within?
> > >
> > > /Loa
> > >
> > > >
Don Fedyk wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Loa
> >
> >
> > > > My comment was in
practice we treat it a layer. We should
> >
> > recognize that. Others have commented on the fact the OSI
model
> > > > does not capture
all.
> > > >
> > > > Don
> > >
>
> > > > >
> > > > > > Don Fedyk wrote:
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > Yakov
> > > > >
>
> > > > > > I think MPLS is a
layer in its own right.
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you say that MPLS is a layer according to
the OSI model?
> > > > >
> > > > > /Loa
>
> > > >
> > > > >
--
> > > > > Loa Andersson
> > > > > Chief Architect,
> > > > > Utfors Research, Architecture and Future Lab
(URAX)
> > > > > Utfors AB
> > > > > Råsundavägen 12
> > > > > Box 525, 169 29 Solna
> > > > >
Office +46 8 5270
2000
> > > > > Office
direct +46 8 5270 5038
> > >
> > Mobile +46
70 848 5038
> > > > >
Email
loa.andersson@utfors.se
> > > > >
WWW
www.utfors.se
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
--
> > > Loa Andersson
> > > Chief Architect,
> >
> Utfors Research, Architecture and Future Lab (URAX)
> > > Utfors AB
> > >
Råsundavägen 12
> > > Box 525, 169 29
Solna
> > >
Office +46 8 5270
2000
> > > Office direct +46 8
5270 5038
> > >
Mobile +46 70 848
5038
> > >
Email
loa.andersson@utfors.se
> > >
WWW
www.utfors.se
> > >
>
> --
> Loa
Andersson
> Chief Architect,
> Utfors Research, Architecture and Future Lab (URAX)
> Utfors AB
> Råsundavägen
12
> Box 525, 169 29 Solna
> Office +46
8 5270 2000
> Office direct +46 8
5270 5038
>
Mobile +46 70 848
5038
>
Email
loa.andersson@utfors.se
>
WWW
www.utfors.se
>
>
---------------------------------
> Sr. Advisor,
Portfolio Integration and Architecture
>
dallan@nortelnetworks.com
>
>
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